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OUCH ! Question: Why not abort??

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  • OUCH ! Question: Why not abort??

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVwlo...eature=related

    I'm a newbie to floats so I'm not sure as to what/why this sort of thing happened...

    Was there a point of no return type decision to take-off because there was no way to break the plane in time??

    Just hard to believe and a real shame. Such a fantastic plane !!


    Raph

  • #2
    The NSTB report doesn't say very much, but I have to wonder whether the plane was loaded over gross.
    -harry

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    • #3
      You cant see much from that video but it looks like he did not take off directly into the wind. The wind sock is not moving much - but early in the video you can see the wind ripple across the lake. I can't see enough in the video to know how much water was available - maybe there was not enough room to take off directly into the wind. He sure needed a combination of more airspeed & more room before yanking back on the yoke.

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      • #4
        No expert here - but just from looking at it...

        Lack of fully developed step + dragged floats.
        It's hard to push the nose down (or release back elevator pressure) if you see trees or terra firma ahead and can't get the box to fly. Me thinks pulling the power around 26 seconds to 31 seconds after the movie starts would have prevented a bunch of bent metal. Without continuing the attempted step turn (maybe for another circle) I also believe this is where the point of no return was reached. I doubt the aircraft was anywhere close to GW. The procedure recommended is called a step turn. The water itself looked relatively calm, so maybe making some waves before attempting takeoff may have helped. Poor Beaver!

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        • #5
          The lake wasn't long enough.

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          • #6
            That "runway" is 4540' long, but it looks like they did the equivalent of running off the edge of the runway, about 1/3 of the way along its length.
            -harry
            Last edited by hm; 12-21-2009, 18:57.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by KeithSmith View Post
              The lake wasn't long enough.
              It wasn't the same Elephant?

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              • #8
                The other problem was he didn't hold his brakes until his engine got up to full RPM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by KeithSmith View Post
                  The other problem was he didn't hold his brakes until his engine got up to full RPM.
                  Knowing that you have not flown floats in a couple hundred years, I'd say you have not realized that flying such a plane is a completely different kind of flying alltogether! Just looking around the panel can make you dizzy! Attitude, Airspeed, Temperatures, Wash, Spin, Rinse!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JJBAKER View Post
                    Knowing that you have not flown floats in a couple hundred years, I'd say you have not realized that flying such a plane is a completely different kind of flying alltogether! Just looking around the panel can make you dizzy! Attitude, Airspeed, Temperatures, Wash, Spin, Rinse!
                    UNCLE

                    I know when I've been outmatched.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Here's a question for the masses: does "ground effect" exist for amphibs as it does for conventional a/c?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jboomer View Post
                        Here's a question for the masses: does "ground effect" exist for amphibs as it does for conventional a/c?
                        Why would it not?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JJBAKER View Post
                          Why would it not?
                          Answer a question with a question? Thanks for your incredible insight!

                          I'm curious if that "cushion of air" exists over water as it does over land? I figure it probably does to some extent, however since water isn't a solid, I can't help but think that its effect is diminished?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jboomer View Post
                            Answer a question with a question? Thanks for your incredible insight!
                            Sorry you took it that way.

                            I'm curious if that "cushion of air" exists over water as it does over land? I figure it probably does to some extent, however since water isn't a solid, I can't help but think that its effect is diminished?
                            I can only respond from my own experience, and I'd say you can feel the effects of "ground effect" in a seaplane just as much as in it's landbased sistership. But, we are looking at a greater height (distance between wings and water), which does not allow the seaplanes wing to get as close to the water as a landplane does, generally. Landing a amphib on land again increases the distance between wings and surface, which may lead to a less noticed sensation of ground effect. Just like a landplane, a seaplane can fly at a lower speed close to the ground than it can when out of ground effect.

                            Looking at the accident discussed here, I'd probably say that the aerodynamical forces created by these huge wings where not capable of overcoming the drag, created by dragging these two huge bathtubs around the lake. The airplane need little time on the step in order to reach safe flying speed and even then you can hold it close to the water to get some speed build up, however without this critical "piece of a step", there is not much of a takeoff.

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                            • #15
                              Thanks for the response! I hadn't considered the distance above the surface you're already at with those things under you. Seems like crosswind landings on land would be just as much a challenge as landing in a crosswind on water would be.

                              I sure hope to have the opportunity to get some amphib flights in one day! Looks like a hoot (this video not withstanding).

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